Mayor Karen Williams and Redlands2030 President Steve MacDonald with Raby Bay Ratepayers Association executive members.
The Toondah Harbour Priority Development Area could accommodate up to 10,000 people, under plans being developed by preferred developer Walker Corporation.
Mayor Karen Williams and Redlands2030 President Steve MacDonald discussed Toondah Harbour plans at the Raby Bay Ratepayers’ Association (RBRA) meeting on Monday evening.
While there was a clear clash of ideas between the two speakers there was also some common ground – the need to improve the harbour facilities.
Artist’s impression of what could be at Toondah Harbour (Redland City Council June 2015 Update)
Mr MacDonald said the Toondah project’s scale had increased enormously since public consultation in early 2014. He said the estimated project value of $1.4 billion indicated a likely development of about 4,000 units which could house 10,000 people. Cleveland’s current population is about 15,000.
Mayor Williams agreed that about 10,000 people could be living at Toondah Harbour when the project is complete. She said this scale of development was necessary to stimulate the local economy; claiming that it would bring about 1,000 new jobs during construction and 500-600 jobs thereafter.
Questions raised
Adequacy of the area’s traffic and other infrastructure to cope with this projected population increase was questioned by the Raby Bay Ratepayers audience. Other issues raised included the market demand for marina berths, risk of storm surges and the need for a siltation survey before project designs are finalised.
Toondah Approval process
Toondah Harbour Priority Development Area (click to enlarge)
Mayor Williams said there would be an opportunity for public consultation when Walker Corporation submits its its concept master plan; expected by the end of 2015.
A development application will be processed under the Economic Development Act 2012 which provides for a streamlined approval process without any rights of appeal.
Federal Government environmental approvals will also require further public consultation. The first stage of this process is expected to start later this year.
Current Toondah project activities involving the Council, State Government and Walker Corporation include negotiation of a development management agreement and dealing with native title claims.
Alternative concepts
Mr MacDonald said the Toondah project should not be planned in isolation from the rest of Cleveland. He pointed to an alternative plan developed in 2014 by a panel of experts who proposed a concept for a smaller harbour linked to proposed development nodes in Cleveland and Raby Bay including the Cleveland CBD.
The Mayor said the alternative plan did not deliver the scale of development required for economic stimulation. She said that Walker Corporation’s investment would include a $100 million up front investment in community infrastructure including a world class ferry terminal, public marina, deeper harbour and a multi-million dollar promenade.
Due diligence and cost benefit analysis
Mr MacDonald questioned the economic risk to Redland City ratepayers given the scale of the Toondah Harbour PDA project and its likely timeline.
The Mayor claimed that Council would make money out of the Toondah project, with the majority of risk being borne by Walker Corporation. She said that while details are still commercial in confidence, economic and technical due diligence reports commissioned by Council proved that the project was viable and would not impact on ratepayers.
Councillor Craig Ogilvie pointed out that the Council’s due diligence assessments were based on various assumptions and scenarios and not all scenarios yield positive outcomes.
RBRA President Zrinka Johnston said that a full cost benefit analysis was needed which takes into account the economic aspects of the project including provision of community infrastructure, as well as social and environmental costs.
Report by Redlands2030 – 9 October 2015
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16 Comments
They sound ;like some very valid points Jackie and you sound like you know what you are talking about!
One wonders whether a big name like Walker is indeed across abnormal engineering difficulties of building here on a fragile site consisting mainly of landfill, which floods with peak tides. Simply to build in these conditions requires piles for foundations to be sunk 20-40 metres, a bit like constructing Venice. The notion of underground car parking is probably economically exorbitant, certainly technically challenging and realistically impossible. That would be car parking for 10,000 new residents, plus the thousands of spaces required for businesses, tourism, island residents – and do we still factor in a 400-berth marina? Let’s say as many as 10,000 vehicles to be accommodated. That’s a parking station like the one at the airport.
You’d want a light rail connection between Cleveland station and Toondah to move so many additional people: who’d pay for that?
But it needs a hydraulics engineer to analyse the feasibility and viability of underground parking at Toondah Harbour (plus stormwater management, sewerage, etc).
It should noted that no consultant hydrological report has been made public and none existed at the time of ‘consultation’ in 2014 when RCC presented its master plan for the site. Similarly, we haven’t yet seen a comprehensive and updated traffic report. Or an economic feasibility study, commercial impacts on the CBD, road widening, etc, etc … Just the sizzle.
Underground car parks in the new Toondah Harbour precinct will not be possible because of the water level already existing in that area. Where then will 10,000 people park their 10,000 cars?
Many car parks and other structures are below sea level. Raby Bay car park is below the harbour. You simply need enough weight above to stop it floating. I think units of about 8 stories would do it.
Did someone mention a ferry terminal?
With this scale of development, where are the residents going to park their vehicles? New residences have been built near my home in Cleveland and not enough off street parking is causing roads to become overcrowded, residents getting angry and frustrated. All to make the council more money, is there actually going to be a better quality of life for residents???? I couldn’t even park my car at the weekend at Toondah Harbour whats the chance when another 10,000 move in????? I just can’t fathom where they are going to put these people!
I think not it will be like Wellington Point where you can’t even park your car to walk out to King Island or Launch your boat! Such a disaster at the weekends.
What about he Hideous development next to Faith Lutheran on the way to Victoria Point, it is an absolute Eye sore! people are already putting up flags in the windows, making it look like a Ghetto!!!!! Will this be the future of Cleveland I hope not!!!! Cramming people in only causes problems in communities and society!
Maybe council better plan on a bigger centrelink as with no Jobs in the area it will surely be bursting at the doors.
Regards Concerned Cleveland resident !!!!
I have 8 three bedroom units on my street. Each has parking for one car. Now we have 8 cars parking on the street every night. The cencus clearly shows one car park per unit is not adequate. They had to “relax” the regulations to get the one parking spot through. They managed to fit two more units instead of the six car parks they really needed.
This is the council that cemented the Bloomfield Street Park!
So 600 people will have jobs at Toondah … that’s a good thing. But what about the other 9,400 who will need to travel to Brisbane, Logan or the Gold Coast to find work? All in cars or busses? There has been no talk of rail in any of the large scale developments… Toondah, Shoreline and all the infil developments.
The truck movements to even build it will be a nightmare. Concrete and rock. Middle, Passage and Long Street beware but only for the construction period of say 20 years?
The usual population of Surfers Paradise is around 20,000 people over 582 hectares which equates to around 34 persons per hectare.
The proposed Toondah Harbour development area size is 67 hectares (of which 50 hectares will be land reclamation from Moreton Bay).
10,000 people in the Toondah Harbour area would equate to approx. 150 persons per hectare.
For once in my life I am utterly speechless at the enormity of this insanity…
How many of our tunnel projects have gone bankrupt because of “projections” of triple the amount of actual car usage? It leaves us with tunnels but who has to bail out bankrupt corporations? When we have our elected representatives tying ratepayers hands to huge infrastructure costs to information that is commercial in confidence, I get nervous!
I have lived here long enough to recall that the Raby Bay development was supposed to breathe new life into Cleveland and all problems would be solved. Still waiting …..
Thank you for news of 10,000 new residents for Toondah. Good to get an update right when we were scurrying around trying to respond to the new city plan that plans to allow every Joe Blow to cut up his block in the infill race.
Phew! can we settle back a bit now? Don’t need so many blocks after all. Throw in Capalaba and Cleveland higher rise and there we have it…population increase taken care of!
The ten thousand will be pretty well-heeled won’t they? They won’t work locally as there won’t be jobs? and we can’t have them just as wait-table persons can we?
But the good thing is, I can get a bigger boat now as it can be moored in the new marina.
Beg to differ, Big Boy!
10,000 residents will bring loads of new jobs. A big name like Walker will have thought of it all.
Just think of the opportunities to provide services for the new residents, right down to spa and mud bath treatments. Can’t you just see the value in “Governor’s mud bath specialty! Step into the healing power of the very same mud that sank a governor one hundred and fifty years ago!”
That would steal it from Ipswich at long last.
So, fair shake of the sauce bottle.